Southern State of Golf

What It's Really Like Visiting Pinehurst for the First Time

• BestBall • Season 2 • Episode 26

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Join us as we dive into a detailed recount of a memorable golf trip to Pinehurst, exploring courses, accommodations, food, and the overall experience. Perfect for golf enthusiasts planning their next adventure or looking to learn more about Pinehurst's offerings.

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SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Southern State of Golf Podcast. Hi, I'm your host, John, and I'm excited today to be joined by he's making his second guest appearance on the Southern State of Golf podcast, Jeff DiBatisto. Jeff, how are you doing today, man?

SPEAKER_00

I'm doing well, John. Thanks for having me. Excited to talk Pinehurst.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Well, that's why you're here today. You're here today because we're going to talk about our recent trip to Pinehurst. And we've it was done because of a 50th birthday party trip where there's a group of seven guys that got together. It was a fantastic trip. What is your first thoughts when you you think about the trip that we just had in Pinehurst?

SPEAKER_00

Ooh, first thoughts. Um better and more relaxed than I imagined it would be. Um better because I think the quality of the golf courses was fantastic. Um as I told you before, I didn't uh didn't have the best experience on number four the first time we had played it, and then I had never seen number 10. And uh, and so getting those two again, I I played two. Um and we won't forget about seven, but but four and ten were in fantastic shape, and and ten especially was a was a gem. So that, and then I think anytime you put a group of guys together, um, you know, especially at our age with all the things we got going on in our lives, getting everybody to get to one place, and then, you know, a lot of a lot of opinions. Um, it ended up being just a very relaxed, fun trip where everybody got along, and and I think that's also an important part of a trip like that. So those would be the first things that come to mind.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'll say this, you know, there's a group of seven of us, and I actually only knew two of the other guys before going on the trip, and I appreciated how you obviously you knew everybody that was on the trip. I appreciated you put the put together a group chat before our trip where everybody started talking about what was just get to know each other a little bit and getting ready for the trip. And, you know, I I was I I I thought it was awesome. I thought all seven guys was are guys that I would hang out with. You know, like I said, I only knew one other person besides yourself on the trip, but the other guys, they were fantastic guys. So the group of guys that you put together was outstanding. I know it was one of the things we talk about, you know, it's talked about often with the Best Ball Family podcast is golf is people. And granted, we went to Pinehurst, which is one of the world's best golf resorts. I think the group of the seven of us would have had a good time if we went and played at the local municipal courses.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. I think um the people that you end up playing with is far more important than any score you shoot. Um, I think those memories of us uh kind of hanging out in the villa together uh at night and and our dinners and things, you got to have people that you want to hang out with. Um and so I I thought we had a really good group. Fortunate. Um I don't know how all of you are friends with me, but uh but it was a but it was a definitely a fun trip with some with some really good guys and and I appreciated how everybody uh you know took the effort to get to know each other because I think a lot of them were in the same boat as you, where they knew probably two people on the trip, uh me including me, um, and didn't know anybody else, and then um, you know, were able to to kind of make some friends along the way, truly, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, no, it was fantastic. Just to kind of go over what we did. I mean, we spent three nights at the Carolina Villas there at the Carolina Hotel there in Pinehurst. Three nights at the Fasio, yes. You got to make sure we get the the the Tom Fazio one, right? Correct, not George, correct. Not George, but Tom Fazio one. Now, the you've been to Pinehurst before. Where did you stay previously when you went there?

SPEAKER_00

So we uh we stayed in the Carolina Hotel right there. We actually went during COVID. Uh North Carolina was in the state was open, uh, so we were able to go and and play golf. But when I tell you it was a far different experience, it was a far different experience during COVID. Um, it was nice to see. I mean, Pinehurst is Pinehurst, right? Um they they do a great job, but they just didn't have the staff. And then obviously there were restrictions on what you could and couldn't do. Um I felt like we we really got the Pinehurst experience. And two of the other guys who were on this trip went on the one in 2020, um, and they kind of felt the same way that it it just was a totally different experience with with seeing the full resort. And then, you know, obviously they've added things in the in the six, seven years since we we were there.

SPEAKER_01

Well, the Carolina villas were outstanding. I mean, there are a villa that has four bedrooms that each have two, I guess, queen-sized beds, and then like a common room there in the middle. I thought that was awesome. It had a little kitchen in there with an ice machine and water with a big TV, and it was a great, you know, common room. Like, you know, what what did you think about that versus what just that type of experience as opposed to when you were at the just at the Carolina Hotel with the group you were at with?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, completely different experience. I think at night you were um, you almost were like you had to find somewhere for the group to hang out. Whereas with the villas, it was built in with kind of that living room area, living room, dining room, kitchen. Um, I'm sure you can kind of post pictures at some point of what that looked like, but uh very well appointed, very nice, uh very comfortable, had enough seating for everybody. And it just kind of allowed us to decompress. Truthfully, uh, you know, we were all pretty tired at at the end of the evening. So we may have had, you know, one adult beverage or two, but it wasn't much more than that. Everybody was kind of recovering from the golf that day, and then obviously knew we had had big days going forward. So yeah, it was a totally different experience. Um, the one thing we didn't get to is really didn't even get to the rocking chairs and and kind of that outdoor patio area. We just didn't even go out there. Um, you know, we ended up watching a lot of World Cup soccer, I think, and uh on on TV and uh and uh and a little bit of baseball, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, I thought it was outstanding. I mean, this was my first ever guys golf trip that I've ever been on. You know, I've never done anything like this before. So it was the first time that I ever did anything like that, but I thought it was a perfect setup for that type of thing, you know, where it was a good big group together, but also felt like we had enough privacy when we needed it. Like it, I never felt like people were ever on top of us. I mean, you had a common entrance where you can come in through the uh the main area, or you can just go straight through your door and that's if your key worked. Um may have had key issues on that.

SPEAKER_00

Or phones.

SPEAKER_01

Or phones. We'll we'll we'll get to that issue later. Um if we don't lose it. But I just thought it was out the service overall was outstanding. I mean, I I didn't know what to expect. I did expect good service. I did expect that, but I thought it was great from top to bottom at the resort. What did you think about that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I and I uh thanks for that lead in, because I think you and I maybe had that conversation in the cart one day or or somewhere near it that you know, it's such a massive operation. I mean, you're talking about multiple sites, it's not just the the main site where you know two and four are with the cradle and then the Carolina Hotel and the villas. Um, you know, seven and eight are off-site, ten is off-site. Um, and so it's a big operation, and and certainly they're a service-based, you know, industry, a service-based uh business at Pinehurst. But I was um I was pleasantly surprised by how friendly everybody was and how professional they were uh to a person um taking the time to at least make eye contact and say hello. And I thought that was literally to a person. Everybody we saw spoke. Uh and I think that says a lot about their culture and probably their training program and and um and you know, let's just be honest, people are spending a lot of money to be there. And so I think they want to make sure that they have that experience. Um, I will, you know, kind of add in, I think in the past, Pinehurst has probably had, I'm we're talking way back, we're talking 90s, early 2000s, but had a reputation as being a bit stuffy. And I think that's the complete opposite uh to the experience that we had. I thought it was very welcoming. I saw a ton of families there. I saw a bunch of guys' golf trips. Obviously, we were we were there during uh two pretty big amateur events, so there were a lot of you know high school and college kids there. Um, and I thought everybody just was able to commingle and and get along great. Heck, they had a I think they had a charity tournament there our last morning. So um, yeah, I I I was uh very impressed with the service of Pineurse.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it was great to where we pulled up in the car, when I pulled up right to the villas, parked it, never once got in it again until we left that uh on the last day. Because the shuttle service they had, yeah, you know, I always get nervous when you do shuttle services at different resorts, like how long are you gonna have to wait? Is it gonna be comfortable? I don't think we ever waited longer than just two or three minutes for a shuttle. I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_00

I thought that um so our caddy on number two, um, he was not our caddy, but he was in our group. Um, we were talking about and he's a veteran, and and he said the shuttle of service makes or breaks your experience. And he could not have I mean make our break make or break us, probably, but we didn't have a poor experience. So I it it was amazing. I mean, it was do you need a shuttle? Sure. And that shuttle was there within three, four minutes, like you said, two or three minutes. And it's like, where do you need to go? We need to go off off site to number 10. Cool, we got you. Let's load the clubs up and let's go. And it's just like, wow, you know, even coming from dinner that first night, our our guy was driving like a NASCAR driver, but um, but it was neat, right? Like, I mean, he he he we didn't wait long and um and it it just got us everywhere we needed to go. And I think that's another piece of it, right? That you really do get to park your vehicle and and not have to worry about it the rest of your trip. And there's something to be said for that. And we all drove because it's within driving distance of where we all live. Um so we could have easily driven over to anywhere we needed to go to to seven or to ten, but it just it was very nice. Very well done.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, it w it was. It was outstanding. Uh the drivers were all friendly, very nice. Like I said, I there were never an issue. Um now, I mean you know, first night the lady took us, was taking us to to the wrong course there for a little bit. But she was actually really nice about it, got it straight, and we ended up going to the right place after that. Well, let's talk, let's talk a little bit before we dive into the golf. Let's talk into something maybe just as important, at least for some of us as golf, is the food. Yeah, yeah. We um I I will say this. We I'll say this. We ate dinner on that first night. We ate at plate there. That was number eight. We also ate breakfast at the Carolina Hotel. We had lunch and dinner on Tuesday at the Deuce, and then on Wednesday, we did we had breakfast and lunch there at the station there at the Pan Pinehurst, you know, sand mines number 10, outstanding. Then later on at dinner at the Pinehurst Brewing. And then the next day, for some of us who did participate, and I did because I had to, breakfast at the Carolina Hotel. All right, what'd you think about the food?

SPEAKER_00

I thought it was outstanding. Um, again, this is this is an unbiased review at Pinehurst. We don't get paid to do this. Um, but again, like I I was thinking back after the trip of what the best meal was, because it was a central part of it. And again, on a buddy's trip, on a golf trip, like you want these community meals, right? I mean, we sat back, either reviewed our rounds, or we were talking about what we were looking forward to when what we were playing, or maybe we were talking about world events the night before, whatever, but we were all together. And so you want a good meal when you do that, obviously. Um, and I think they get that right at Pinehurst. Um Pinehurst brewing is tough to beat. I mean, that food was fantastic. Again, now going in 2020, I didn't remember the food being that good. Um, I thought that I had smoked wings, uh, and then kind of the barbecue plate, and they it was fantastic. Um, and then the station um at number 10. I think we'll get into 10 plenty because I think that was a fan favorite uh of our group. What a place that is, uh especially after they put 11 out there. But um, yeah, I thought the food was fantastic. Shoot, the food at number eight was fan. I had swordfish the first night. Um, and then I know you'll probably get into it, but having that kind of meal plan as part of the package was also awesome. It was kind of stress-free. You already had it figured out, you knew what you were doing. If we wanted to get a different meal, we could. Like we ate at station and you know, we had lunch and we paid for that because that wasn't included in it. But I I just, yeah, they they got the food right. Again, uh overall theme, I think Pinehurst gets it, gets it right in a lot of areas.

SPEAKER_01

No, they they absolutely did. I I really loved the meal plan. There's a lot of choices. I mean, there's a lot of other really good restaurants that look good that we could have chosen to go to. I like the fact we had choice. I there wasn't, I didn't have a bad meal, a single bad meal the entire uh trip. I mean, we got to start off with, like I said, with plate on Monday night. And I thought that was really, really good. You know, to start off, I was like, man, this is this is really good. And it was almost like every meal after that, it's almost like a little better or something a little bit different. Um, but you're right. I'm with you. I think I might go pinehurst brewing as my favorite meal, or maybe, maybe the station too at number 10. Like that was, those are all very strong, of course.

SPEAKER_00

I think the vibe at 10, right? Like the vibe at 10 was just off the charts. And I think that played into some of that food. I mean, we had I had bison sliders. They were awesome. Absolutely awesome.

SPEAKER_01

I I was a little apprehensive about having breakfast at number 10 because I thought the Carolina Hotel breakfast was so good. I was like, why do I want to give up a good breakfast to go to a place I don't know that much about? When I went in there, that breakfast at number 10, they're a little, you know, they had a smaller buffet than what was at the Carolina Hotel, but man, it was still so, so, so good. I mean, it it was it really was good for breakfast and lunch. It was it was really good. I can't remember what I had for lunch, but it was it was outstanding. We sat outside, shade, we had, I think we had some fans underneath us. It was hot, but it but it felt good when we when we had lunch.

SPEAKER_00

Well, hold on one and and to to do that too, shout out Deborah from Pinehurst. Um, she recommended making sure that when we were playing 10 to get there and go eat breakfast there instead of eat at the hotel. She said you won't regret it. And um, and so shout out to Deborah, she was correct, it was a fantastic breakfast.

SPEAKER_01

No, she I absolutely was. Now we'll do this with the golf too, but I'm gonna put you on the spot when we're talking about if you had 10 meals out of the places we ate, how are you breaking up your your 10 meals?

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Um so I'm gonna eat I'm gonna eat at Pinehurst Brewing probably four times. Okay. I'm gonna eat lunch at station twice. I'm gonna eat lunch, uh, dinner at plate twice, so we're up to eight, and then I'll do Carolina Hotel once for breakfast and station once for breakfast. How about two?

SPEAKER_01

Ooh, that that's really good. I'm I'm actually gonna because the the station was so different. I'm gonna go twice for breakfast at the station because I just like it was different. And then the Carolina Hotel once for breakfast. So that's three. Even though I've I it's kind of funny, I'm I'm contradicting myself. When people say the Carolina Hotel has the best breakfast in golf, I'm not gonna argue with them. But I will say the station breakfast for me because it was very similar, but still just different enough. Like I wasn't used to having you know some of the different things we had there. So once at Carolina Hotel for breakfast, twice at the station for breakfast. That's three. I'm gonna go, I think I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go four times at Pinehurst Brewing. Okay, that's seven. I'm gonna go twice at lunch for I'm gonna go twice at lunch at the station. That's how much I love it. And then I'm gonna go once at the deuce. I still thought the deuce was good. But I I think I the deuce was good, but well, part of the deuce is the fact it is the deuce. It is part of number two. It is the history of the place and that. And you mean you were almost talking like it was our one of the least favorite meals we had, but I still thought it was really, really good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I didn't I didn't love it. Um, I thought the food was fine. I mean, it wasn't like it was bad, but I it wasn't my favorite. So, I mean, I I would it would not be my first place to choose to eat. Um, I think sitting outside there is a much different experience than sitting inside. Because I think you kind of get that full number two and the whole resort feel by sitting on that back patio. I think inside a little bit of that is lost. But you do have the air condition on the inside. That I think you do. You do.

SPEAKER_01

You do. But I I I love the food. I thought it was outstanding. We we had what was the best thing that you had food-wise?

SPEAKER_00

Oh man. Oh, I uh it it could have been recency bias because it was our last meal, but the uh smoked cheerle wine barbecue wings at Pinehurst Brewing were off the charts. I should have just had that for my dinner. I mean, truthfully, I should have just had it. Um had I known that, you know, I may it may have gone back. Um, but no, it was that that was my favorite. How about you?

SPEAKER_01

I this is this is bad podcast material, but I'm gonna say the same thing. I thought that might be a singular that that was a singular best thing. Or they you know, I will say there was a little waffle that they had at the station, like some western type it was some honey chipotle butter that I put on it. That was just it was really, really good.

SPEAKER_00

But that was a big Southwest theme for that breakfast.

SPEAKER_01

That was, and it was it was it was outstanding. I mean, there it was really good. All right, let's get into the golf a little bit. Let's do it. I I love how we started off our trip at number seven. We started off on Monday, number seven, I think we had a one-something tea time. So it was it was a little toasty um by the time we got there. And it was a you know, a Reese Jones design. I will tell you, I knew absolutely nothing about number seven, the golf course, but came away with it really enjoying it. What'd you think?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I agree with you. I knew very little about it. Uh, did not play it on the last trip up there. And again, shout out to Deborah, uh, a little suggestion from her to start start it out. Um, and we we were very close, which I don't know if you knew, but we were very close to playing number eight instead. In fact, I called to try to get it changed, um, but they had just punched. Uh, so we were not gonna do that. And I didn't want to do that on our first round, so we stuck with seven, and I'm glad we did. Um, you know, kind of meanders uh through residential area. Um I thought it was in fantastic shape um and a great way to kind of start the trip, other than we're only allowed to hit about six balls because the guy was gonna mow the grass, which uh which would have been nice to know, um, but was not the end of the world. We all had a good time. But yeah, I thought that was great. And then uh lo and behold, we saw one of our old uh coaching buddies from Blast in the Past from college uh as a as a starter uh at that golf course. So that was kind of cool to see as well. But yeah, no, great start.

SPEAKER_01

No, it it was a great start. It was the best 17 holes I played on the only 17 holes I played on the trip because for the first time on a golf trip, I lost my cell phone. I absolutely put it in the cart and somewhere, I think on this between the second and maybe a third hole, it just fell out of my golf cart. Absolutely, it just it fell out. And I'm trying to panic to find it. Where did I, you know, I knew I had it because I was inputting my score on my phone, and we did the old find my phone app. Thank goodness that works like a gym because it was just sitting right there near where we we lost it on one of the holes. So I did miss one hole. I think I I think I missed the the the number third, the third hole on there. But I thought it was really good. And I will say too, it was a pretty I thought it was a difficult golf course. I mean, I lost I lost more balls on that course. I I lost more balls on that course than all the other courses we played combined.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I I think that was probably a little bit of, and I don't know if your caddies talk, but it's it's hard to lose a golf ball on two. Um, and I think I think ten was sort of like that. Ten had more trees, but it's harder to lose it, and especially with caddies, they're kind of bloodhounds with that stuff. But it's hard to lose a golf ball on two. Um, but I I would also argue a little bit with you though. the beginning of your trip and and you'll probably you probably won't say this, but I mean your scores improved every day on that trip, right? So it was kind of easing around. I mean you literally just gotten out of the car. I'm not even sure you guys didn't even hit any golf balls, I don't think. So I mean that that was maybe a little bit of a product of that. The only, you know, for for guys that are a little bit longer off the T, there were not many drivers to be had from the T's we played from. I hit a lot of hybrids or like a mini driver. But I thought it was a fair golf course. I thought it was a fair test. I thought the greens were were awesome. So yeah, I I actually would go not even as a starter uh to a trip I'd I just go play it. Like I I thought it was I thought it was good.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah there's no doubt it was a that that is one of those that the course probably doesn't get enough recognition because it is in there with all the other outstanding uh courses there at Pinehurst. Well the next morning the next day on Tuesday what a full great day that is we started off in the morning we played the cradle I've heard so much about the cradle. I'm such a big fan of par three short courses once again I loved it. I thought the Pinehurst did it right they did it they did it great. What were your impressions of the cradle?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah this is where I may go slightly if I had a critique so I played it before on the last trip and it was absolutely unbelievable. Like it was great. I thought this time the greens were not in as good shape. Maybe they had been punched they looked a little bit chewed up now I will also say there's probably a little bit of bias playing in the evening versus playing it during the day. I think the evening near sunset there's there's not much better out there than walking that thing barefoot towards sunset. And then we played it in the morning which was an available time. So I will say that I absolutely love that place but but uh I was not as impressed this time as I was the last time but I the vibe is you have to do it. I mean you have to do it if you're up there.

SPEAKER_01

No I absolutely I mean I thought it was I thought it was it was a lot of fun the greens I thought were difficult and see I don't I first time I've ever played it um so I thought they were challenging for me they were fun they weren't just it wasn't the easiest thing in the world but it it was a lot of fun great atmosphere I did play the the the last hole barefooted I did I did do that that was fun to to say hey I got one hole in barefoot just as and I'm not a barefoot guy. I don't think I think that's um I just don't normally do that but I thought that was really good and really enjoyed it. They're a little halfway house the cradle crossing right there you know they had uh you know good uh good good food there and some some some beverages there as well I mean it was just a really cool little neat little thing that they had right there.

SPEAKER_00

So I think it's it's it's a cool thing. And like I said I'm I'm probably I'm probably nitpicking because my experience the last time uh was awesome you know and this one I just didn't think the greens were as good and when I say that like the ability to spin them back closer to the hole and they weren't as fast and and whatever but it's a it's a must play if you're in binaries must play.

SPEAKER_01

Well I can I can under I agree with that 100%. But I also can agree where I can see how if we were played at sunset, how that could add to the environment. But once again I thought the group that we had you know we actually had a we had a a member join us as part of our to round out our four you know round out to so we have foursome and I really enjoyed playing with him hearing him talk and you know that that was fun to be able uh to do that. And then later on the day we went and played the granddaddy the one that's uh number two the one that I think everybody when they go to Pinehurst they want to be able to play and it was one that probably terrified me the most because one of the things people talk about Pinehurst number two they want to talk about how difficult it was. And I think without a doubt it was extremely difficult. I believe it was your second time playing number two what did you think?

SPEAKER_00

Again got a totally different experience this time than I had during uh 2020 during COVID uh the greens were extremely slow. They did not have the same maintenance staff for obvious reasons during that time. Um and so and I I'm gonna get this wrong um and and if anyone from Pinehurst is listening please correct us in the comments but I think they have over 70 people on maintenance just for that golf course alone. I think during COVID they had less than 10 uh so we got a much different experience. But uh I absolutely love it once in a blue moon. You know I think it's it's a every few years you go play it one, it's very expensive. But two it's just it's unyielding and you you you look at it and it appears to be very straightforward. Like it it doesn't look like this monster that you can't play but it's every little mistake is compounded if it's not perfect. And that's really truthfully around the greens and then the other part that people talk about all the time which is true is is it's much tighter than like 10 and four. So if your shot rolls off and it's two feet off the fairway, it could be fine or it could be in a dead lie. You know you have no chance. So you just don't know. So you have to be accurate and then your short game just has to be just off the charts. So yeah for a for a major championship venue it's it's exactly what it should be to host a U.S. Open It's very difficult, very unyielding for the average golfer like us you make a mistake and it's not trying to get up and down for par. It's trying to say bogey or double and not make an eight you know and you think gosh this just does not look like it should be like this and then it is you know and there are some big holes out there don't get me wrong but but by just like the first hole second hole you're like okay it's pretty normal T shot and you make a mistake around the green and you're you're dead. So it's um but it's it's all you want. And then I I think the last thing I would add to this is do yourself a favor if you're going to play it and haven't played it and just walk back to a couple of those US open tees and imagine them playing that golf course at almost 7600 yards at a parse 70 and it just gives you a a a much much better appreciation for how good those guys really are just to be able to compete.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah and you play you played from the blue tees or did you play from the whites? I played from the blue tees so about 79 or 6900 yards.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah so I let me correct that I think it was a blue white combo.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So it was like 67 something in that range whatever it ended up being and yeah it was it was it was it was all we wanted.

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah I did I that's single digit handicaps like I mean that's in it was tearing us up yeah I I was I I I am in high double handicap range and it tore me up bad and I only played from the whites which was about 6300 and it was certainly all I can get probably really should have played from the greens uh tees but we went with the the whites to stay with the whole group did you have a favorite hole out there that you like um so my favorite hole in that golf course and it has not changed is nine the par three I think it is one of the just an absolutely amazing I actually think their entire collection of par threes is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00

I think nine is will reward you uh for hitting a really good golf shot and will absolutely eject you for hitting anything less than that. And again if we were talking major championship golf course I think that's the way it should be but I think it's that way from every T box you know so I I just I think that's a really really fantastic hole I think 15 again another par three 15 is awesome in the sense that they call it you got to land it on the back of a Volkswagen beetle like it's I mean it is just real turtleback Donald Ross design. And again you can leave it short it's fine to leave it short and you can you can putt up or chip up but you have to be on and if you make a mistake there it comes back to your feet and depending on where that pin is and I just I think those are just really well thought out designed holes. How about you?

SPEAKER_01

No well I would talk about it as my favorite and biggest horror of the whole trip was number 15. It was one of my best T-shots I put it actually on the green and and I was I was I think it was the only one in our group that put it on the green on 15 because we played it at about I want to say it was about 170 something when we played it and I typically don't do well in long par threes and to me anything 170 plus is long for me. But I actually I fore putted forget about three putt I foreputted that bad boy and I was like you know I did I did say a while back I just wanted to have a putt for a deuce coin on number two I just wanted to have a putt. Well I got my putt and then I went and got a bunch of others right afterwards. So I was so mad at myself that you know I didn't think I'd really get a birdie on it hoped to got I was like I'm on the green get a par. Man how do you four putt when you put it on the green I was so disappointed. So I like the fact on 15 I got on the green because there weren't many other good things uh I did after that on the par threes.

SPEAKER_00

But I actually think that was that is the most to me that is probably the most visually intimidating T shot on the golf course just because it does not look like there's anywhere to land it and keep it on the green. There is and that's the whole point right of Donald Ross like once you get up to it there is a there are spots to land it but from the T where we played it it just it didn't look like there was anywhere to keep it on the green.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I for me I'm not good enough at golf if I just hit the green literally on the T shot that's if it goes off so be it. I can live with it. Did did anybody in our group get a birdie or get a two on two by chance?

SPEAKER_00

I know no one in our group did we had we had uh we had birdies but we did not have a two not not on no deuce coin no deuce coins for this group.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah nobody hold out from the fairway on a par four either or Albatross par five yeah no uh uh yeah no I mean I thought that was it was such a cool I mean you know when you go you go you go par three on the 15 and then a par five sixteen and then another par three seventeen and of course ending up with 18. You know I think to end 18 like to me that's kind of an iconic hole because I mean I think everybody's seen you know the different bunker shots which I did find the bunker right in front of 18. I didn't have any great hits out of it but I just thought it was nothing spectacular about that.

SPEAKER_00

I think I I ended up with a seven on number on number eighteen and I think I'm I'm hoping that was a legit seven not like a seven that probably should have been a nine um but I had a nasty lie on 18 almost left that was where the uh I believe it was the Bryson lie when he hit it left mine was not where his was but I mean it was in a clump and I just yanked it dead left and then had the uh had to get up there in front of the deuce and try to land one from left of that green over the top of the bunker and I did no chance no chance.

SPEAKER_01

No, it it was an outstanding day. I mean it was a great way to you know finish up after playing the cradle and then playing number two I mean it was it it whipped us it whipped or with me for sure. Absolutely no no doubt with me I you said something that I really I'll harp on a little bit that I really like was it's not a course you want to play every day.

SPEAKER_00

You want to play it every so often yeah um I was challenge is just not yeah it's just not it's it's when you say not enjoyable it makes it seem like you shouldn't do it. You should do it. It's an amazing piece of golf architecture like it's it's obviously stood the test of time. It's just unrelenting.

SPEAKER_01

Oh it it is now it was the worst that I played now I didn't like I only I I lost one ball number two. Maybe I did lose two and I shouldn't have lost it. I think McCaddy should have found it but I well I'm not gonna blame McCaddy for it. I mean I I lost it you just did I did I shouldn't but it wasn't like I it's not like I hit it in the in the woods within a feeable area. I hoped he would have found it he didn't but I also realized you know there's some of that high grass and different stuff that ball probably just got up in one of those but you know it was it was really good really tough I wanted I want another crack at it because I do think I hit the ball so poorly that day that I don't think it was just the course that was so tough. It was I hit the ball poorly but I'm sure that was a middle thing with me as well. Like I I was thinking I don't want to mess it up and I don't want to you know eights.

SPEAKER_00

And and I think a lot of people probably feel this way especially ones that are listening that that have played this golf course before is I think you are on the defensive immediately based on its reputation and then that kind of that first mistake when I say mistake you run it six feet by on a putt and all of a sudden you're playing defense the rest of the day because you're like oh gosh it's Pineurse number two these greens are lightning if I miss it. And so I think it has a way of beyond reputation of putting you on the defensive early and then but I I think if I'm can be so bold, I almost think you got to play it the other way. I think you have to try to go on offense against it as much as you can and especially for us on a golf trip like who cares if you shoot 78 or 98 like at least be aggressive and I think that's one thing I'd like to have back is to play that golf course a little more aggressively just to see what happens. It might be the same result. It might be worse but it could be better. I had my worst round there um and but I would I I just I think maybe you need to go on the offense instead of playing defense.

SPEAKER_01

No I think that's that's great advice. Well the very next day we went and played number 10 Pinehurst sandmines wow what a what an experience it is Pinehurst's newest course that's open. I think it's been open about two years now. Wow tell me what what did you think?

SPEAKER_00

I I think wow is the right word so you and I had the opportunity um in September to go play the tree farm it had massive tree farm vibes to it and that's a compliment to both places. Pinehurst got it right with this one and I think we probably had the the um the luxury of playing it after two so it seemed like an absolute stroll in the park and a beautiful experience because I think we were beaten up from playing it the day before that afternoon and then the next morning we get to go play these wide open fairways big green complexes fun the ball can be funneled um and so and then you what you just kind of walk on the property and it feels like you're you're in nature. There are no homes um I just I I thought it was a an absolute vibe. I I really really like that place. I would and we'll go I'm sure we'll go our our 10 10 rounds here soon but um now that's a place I could play every day. What a unique fantastic experience and and um I applaud Pinehurst on that one they they got it right.

SPEAKER_01

They absolutely did you nailed it saying that it had a tree farm type of vibe play to it. I didn't know what to expect you know the thing that I wanted I think it's got the best logo of any Pinehurst course without a doubt I think it was one of the best logos. Not close yeah not yeah it's not close one of the best logos in in golf and I I just I thought it was fantastic. I mean the Pro Shop was cool the station 21 there on on property you know like I say it is new so it's got a newer you know flair to it um and I even liked the little attention to detail with the driving range having a little sand mine cart there where you go pick up your balls you know it and this is where there's a little bias for me because it was my best round I've ever had as a golfer you know and I've I'll I don't mind putting it out there I shot a 96. That's the best I've ever had and I I I I did for me strike I struck the ball for me very well. I didn't have too many just blow up god-awful holes um but the the par threes I love the par threes now granted it was a it is a par 70 course as opposed to you know a 72 or some others but I loved all I actually loved all the par threes out there and there were only I believe three par fives that were out there as well I thought the um you know the you know the the the the food that they had out there was pr was great with the station and their little halfway house out there was was really neat but like you said the vibe was tremendous and I I really liked our caddies that we had with us probably actually liked our caddies better that day than the caddies that we had on number two but that might be more of a me thing because I played better than than anything else.

SPEAKER_00

Well doesn't that doesn't that kind of always I mean I think that's something that you know again going back to the buddies trip like but but anybody doesn't that affect your experience like I think sometimes you can look at it objectively but if you play really well I think it contributes to to how much you like the place and and the light you view it in. Also quick quick side because you were talking about halfway houses and it made me think like they Pinehurst gets the halfway houses right too I mean their their halfway houses are fantastic. They they do that right they are fully stocked they have um anything that you want there um so I was actually um it's a small detail but it is a detail um and and probably an expectation you should have at a at a resort like that but but every course had that um and even seven I mean it didn't have a true one out there but their their little snack area and and bar was was nice um but 10 was 10 was just absolutely awesome I think it's is it 14 before we before we hit the little halfway house there I think it's 14 that part three that's like 245 250 holy cow what a golf hole that is I mean there is you don't talk about nowhere to land it there's nowhere to land it um but but if you do you're rewarded and if not you got a tough up and down and I didn't think that golf course was terribly difficult. I mean it was wide very wide wide open but I just there's just a lot of variety of shots and a lot of ways you could hit into greens um yeah oh golly man what a what a place and once they put 11 out there I mean I think you're gonna have a lot of people wanting to stay out there and and and run around 10 and 11 more than even maybe more than they run around four. You know that they want to play two but maybe they run around four. I think Pinehurst has got a no pun intended got a gold mine on their hands out there.

SPEAKER_01

Oh absolutely I mean they should have it it should be a par 71 because number 16 that was a long long par four that I'm like there's no way this was a for me anyway it was just a par four but it it it really was you know fantastic to you know I had I got an uncrustable I think it was at number 10 at the halfway house and it was a massive huge yes huge it wasn't like I didn't know that they had different size that's exactly what I thought I didn't realize they made them that big I was like what is this thing it was double the size and I looked and it was double the calories too that part was a shame but man it was it was so it was a it was massive I really really really enjoyed it very very much and what was your did what did you have a favorite hole out there at number 10 uh I I thought 14 was was absolutely awesome.

SPEAKER_00

I think that par three is so well designed um and then yes then we went to fifty is that correct yeah then we went to 15 um yeah I'm gonna go with 14 again I you know a common theme because I I think number four had it too like I think their par threes out there as a resort um are fantastic and well done uh and a good mix of distances you know like I said I think what it is 14 at 10 um was 242, 243 something that's what it was playing and it's like okay you know again and not a not a lot where the pin was not a lot to land it but if you did land it on there it would funnel towards it um because it was a small little funnel. uh on that left side and I think uh a couple of us missed short left and had to basically hit a flop shot over that mound. Um number eight I think is the one that everybody talks about out there um where you you kind of got to hit it over um over that giant mound. Is that correct? It's eight. Um and and I I I think it's a good hole. Uh I think the interesting part is that they just buried the sand uh in the middle of the fairway. They didn't even bother clearing it. They just covered it. Um so it's got a real funky fairway. Um and I you know I think that's neat uh for one hole our caddies didn't love it um but I think it's you know neat seeing it for one hole I don't know that I would want it all day it had a very big tobacco ro road vibe to it um but um but yeah no I I eight was cool but I I like 14. How about you?

SPEAKER_01

You're right I eight was that was fun we actually one of our guys in our group did hit it on the on the hill the massive hill and then hit a great shot out of it just a ridiculously good shot but you you nailed it it is a tobacco road feel right off the top so that to me that was a lot of fun you know 14 I did love as a par three as well even though that was I didn't score particularly well on on that one I thought the view from 14 was really good as it looked out but you know I that's one of those I I loved all the holes out there it just it was just how much I I just really enjoyed it and it was just uh we were fortunate too I will say we were very fortunate with the weather with the exception of maybe one or two holes on number two our weather was really good it could you know it was toasty at times but it wasn't crazy hot. You know we got very lucky we did it could have been like 95 like it out is out there 95 heat index of 100 but it wasn't that way it was just it was just hot you know but it wasn't crazy hot. Yeah I agree I mean I could do it we can probably do a whole episode on number 10 alone but you know then the then what late later that night I don't want to shortchange this we went out and did this will do. We played 18 holes on the putting course that this will do and I I will tell you I know there's some talks amongst your group about it being a major event as part of your group and there's some discussions.

SPEAKER_00

You're part of that group yes I was part of that group um I'm still what I think I don't I'm not sure why it wasn't considered a major I mean I beat everybody in the field at a major championship venue but I digress. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01

Yes you do digress but we put all seven of us on there and I've I've never done anything quite like that before but that was a great way to to end the night for us to to go do that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah we didn't even really need to I think I think it was the talk of like going to the cradle to make sure we played it at sunset, right? Like that was yeah kind of what everybody decided and then it was like do we really want to do that and then have to come back before dinner? Let's just go putt. And we ended up having a blast at this will do. And I had never done that before it was it was so much fun. Everybody got to participate. We made it fun obviously we had a little you know a little contest to see who would win it um you know one of the people on this pod right now won it. Um I won't say which one but one of us won it um but but it was like it was really fun uh we were able to talk trash to each other a little bit and and be in the atmosphere Pinehurst resort. I think that's one thing that they do really well right there at the main hub with the clubhouse and two and this will do and the cradle and four uh and the range is there like it's just a central hub and and in the evening it's kind of buzzing right like there's a lot of people out.

SPEAKER_01

Oh it it was it was outstanding you know some of those holes out there at this will do were extremely difficult um or at least they were for us that didn't win it it probably wasn't as difficult for those that did win it but it really was it was it was it was a fantastic way to end the night but you know then we got into the next day and we ended our trip got a 730 a m tea time at Pinehurst number four man I I've really I think when people talk about the the best courses of Pinehurst they they talk about number two now they're talking about number 10 up there and number four is always brought up as well and I thought that was a really good course to to end the trip and it was actually one of my best rounds I ever played. It wasn't my best it was actually I will say this it was my best score on a par 72 course when I it was a 99 because I think my best score before the trip was a 99 but it was a 99 when I at the at the university club back in the day and I think when I played it was a par 71 or par 70 courses but I I really like number four. What did you think about number four?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah this goes back to a little bit of the theme of of having been there before we we did not have a good experience the first time we played four um and and we were talking to our caddies the day before at 10 of like he asked what we were playing and I said we'll play four tomorrow. I didn't have a great experience he asked when I played it and he goes oh yeah yeah I can see that it just wasn't well manicured it would the the it was not cut the greens were not great and so we left there going eh really like this is this is isn't it's kill hands I think but like is is is that really is this really what it's supposed to be and then uh again this time totally different experience. I I really enjoyed four um I think it's a um it's a hard golf course uh it's it's not as hard as number two um and and it it it brings in some of the elements of two I think it brings in some of the elements of ten um it's its own unique you know little place um but I was I was really impressed with it I thought it was it was in great shape I thought it rewarded good shots I I thought it ejected poor shots and made you pay for it I thought there was a good variety of golf holes so I I was impressed and and that's coming off of not having a great experience there the first time we played it. So yeah kudos to them and the new greens are great.

SPEAKER_01

It was it was a great experience when our group we were we were we had three of us and they paired us with a a young lady who's committed to play golf at Notre Dame.

SPEAKER_00

One of the members of our group said yeah I've heard of Notre Dame before so yeah she was playing in both amateurs she played in the junior North South and is playing in the regular North South.

SPEAKER_01

You know she was there with her mother they were there at Pinehurst for a couple of weeks she was a pleasure to talk to and a mama I mean they were they were great she I thought she played well I think there was times she was upset. She always played from tees further back than what I did but she was great to play with she was very humble very kind especially for us non you know professional golfers but she was really she was great it was that's the thing I love about golf like I don't I know there's sometimes people don't want to get stuck with a random person. She probably didn't want to get stuck with a bunch of random guys but you know she was a lot of fun to play with and you know it was just a really good experience on a on a really good golf course I like the I like the little number four logo they have the Pinehurst number four logo very simple uh I like font logos and that font with it I thought was a lot of fun it just it was a it was a a fun course to to play and I got a great go ahead yeah no go ahead full story for you so we after about five six holes I think it was on the sixth hole uh seventh hole excuse me so the sixth is a par three so seven um she bombed one down there and I with us in the group in front look back and I was like she is pounding the golf ball and I was like she's pumping it by every one of our guys and it's not close like it's not close and then we'd see her hit wedge shots in and it's to six feet five feet seven feet and I'm like who is that girl and um and then obviously we found out at the end she was wow what a I I honestly don't recall her name but um but she was great to talk to just as professional as it gets like like very polished ready to go and and obviously Notre Dame's getting a good one.

SPEAKER_00

She's a very good player but I was very impressed with her but yeah I just kept looking back going holy cow she is bombing the golf ball she's in high school yeah she's still got a whole she's still got a whole senior year in high school she's not even going to Notre Dame next year she's got a whole nother senior year.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't realize she was a junior wow okay yeah and and but that's the thing I love about golf golf brings together people that wouldn't normally be together in that situation and you know it was it was fun that I loved how you mixed up the overall experience that we had.

SPEAKER_00

We all got to play with each other play with the different guys so it was fun to play with people we already know but it was fun to get to get to know some of the other guys that were were there as well and it was just such a overall I think that was important to me too to one I need I wanted to play with everybody um but also you you try to balance uh on these kind of buddies trips right like if everybody's at the same skill level it's a little bit easier but like with any friend group there's nuances of uh does this guy want to play with fast people you know does this group play a little bit slower um is you know is a a bunch of three handicaps and then a 15 handicap is that fair to do for both groups you know is the 15 really want to play with really good players do the threes want to play with a 15 um and so there's a little nuance to it but I thought in our group it was um you know it was it there was no issue. Everybody was good playing with everybody pace of play was good um and I'll give you some credit on that um you were probably the highest handicap on our trip but you're not dilly dallying around you know and I I think that's appreciated by by some of our guys that are lower handicap is like it doesn't really matter what your handicap is it's it's if you you're a high handicap guy and you play very slow, I think that's what gets people off track, right? But if you if you just you play you're you're ready to hit your shot when it's your turn um you're not fumbling for all your stuff like when everybody else is getting ready to hit you're figuring out your yardage and you're ready to play it doesn't matter if it takes you 115 of them to get in if you you can still play at the same pace as somebody that shoots 72. And um and I just thought it was it was a neat experience for everybody to get to play together and I didn't hear anybody say a word. I thought I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_01

No it it absolutely was now we did this with the meals now we got to do it with the golf if you had 10 rounds to play over the course over the four courses I'll throw in five I'll even throw in the cradle if you had 10 course 10 rounds how are you breaking up those 10 rounds amongst the five courses we played um I've only got 10 rounds so I'm gonna play uh I'm gonna play ten four times I'm gonna play two three times I'm gonna play four twice and I'm gonna play the cradle once I think my math is correct there's not yeah four four three two one yeah that's close enough me I'm I'm calculator yeah we don't do you know I I'm not doing math we're not doing math has got to be pretty good with the high numbers that I deal with in my screen um for me I would go five times on number ten that's just how much I loved it I would go t I'd go twice on number two go seven I would go twice on number four and then once at the cradle yeah so we just varied a little bit with two and two and ten right yeah just a little bit because I don't know I I I it's one of those you know pri you know if if I had to push come to shove I might I might have thrown in third there for number two but maybe I wouldn't maybe the the twice is enough I'd I would love to I'd love another crack at it to get that score a little bit better but I actually think it was more of a testament of how good I like number 10. Like I said just the overall vibe and the the experience the walk I thought it was an you know a an easy walk I mean you know I agree we did have caddies on on two and ten we did not have caddies on on seven or four of course not the cradle um and and of course the cradle was a great experience as well I mean I I just thought it was really good. Now if you had to take out one of the courses and then add one we didn't play which what are you taking out what are you putting in I'd take out seven and play eight just because they redid eight and I'd like to see it in that.

SPEAKER_00

Again we played that one back in 2020 um and it was fine it's good um but they they've made some enhancements to it so I because I wouldn't want to take out two four or ten you know like I just I don't think I I think those were awesome. So um I'd take out seven and and I'm not happy about taking out seven I'd probably like to keep seven and add eight and add another round but if you force me to that would be my answer. How about you?

SPEAKER_01

Yes we're gonna force you um for me I would take out seven as well and I might put out I would eight just because I like the logo. I thought the logo with eight is really cool. But I think I'd go three because I know three is a shorter course I think it's a par 68 course and for some 68 or 69 yeah yeah yeah for for a dude like me that doesn't bomb it like the rest of the guys on the trip I I I would have liked to have tried that. But I guess I wouldn't for me it's not about wanting to get takeout seven just because I'm forcing people to do it. All right what was your biggest surprise overall from the trip as we try to wind this thing down here in the next just two or three minutes but because we could take forever what's the biggest surprise that you had a big surprise I will tell you for I was going to say for me the biggest surprise was how good the food was overall. Okay. And that wasn't a surprise like I did expect expect the food to be pretty solid but overall for me every meal that we had was good you know some of them were better than others but I thought it I was surprised at how good it was.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I would say I was a little bit surprised at how seamless everything works there. I don't think we had a hiccup. And I mean that's that's pretty easy to have a hiccup on a trip with that many people at the resort and and golf clubs being shipped all over the resort and food and shuttles and accommodations and I just don't think they missed um and I would have been fine with a hiccup like that it happened right but but I just don't think they did. So I I guess I'm I was a little bit surprised at how seamless everything was not that I expected it to be clunky but I just I mean it's it's hard to to get that right the whole time.

SPEAKER_01

You're right but there's a lot of moving parts with us with a group of seven playing all bunch of different courses uh you know that I thought it went great. All right if you could change anything about the trip what would you have changed?

SPEAKER_00

I probably would have stayed one more day and figured out some sort of wild card for us um wild cord golf wild card golf course whether that was in Pinehurst resort itself or whether we went off property to to Midpines, Pine Needles, Southern Pines, somewhere like that. But I I would have stayed one more day um I think uh because it's not like Vegas you can stay there longer than three days and have a great time. So I I I would have gone one more now that being said again with with all middle age adult males it's it's tough to get everybody to commit to three days much less going longer than that. So and we ended up there what three and a half basically with Thursday being a half day. I would have probably stayed into Friday and had that the getaway day yeah no I I I I agree with that I didn't I gosh I hate to steal something you said but I I would I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_01

Like I would have loved to have gone into the town of Pinehurst and I didn't I didn't do that. I was maybe maybe a surprise too was how busy we or full our schedules were the entire time. Now I never felt busied or rushed or anything like that. But I would have I would have loved a little time just to check out the the the town of Pinehurst and like I said maybe checked out some of the other you know some of the other restaurants but I'm not going to shortchange anything we did. So no it was it was really really good.

SPEAKER_00

And we built in a half day of supposedly nothing to do. Remember that Wednesday afternoon everybody voted not to play 36 I think we would have been toast playing 36 that day because we got back a little later from number 10 and everybody was just kind of like eh you know I just kind of want to hang out.

SPEAKER_01

No, I was good with that I don't re I wouldn't have changed that. I wouldn't have added 36 especially if I was playing at 730 the next morning. Yeah. So now tell me this what what's on your bucket list of places? Now we we've done Pinehurst what's on the bucket list of your your next trip or two that you would want to do that's pretty easy for me.

SPEAKER_00

I'd I'd like to go to Bandon and then I want to go I want to go to Europe so I'd like to either go Scotland or Ireland or both but but Bandon's pro if we're going to United States I'd go Bandon next that's if I have my absolute pick. I mean there's a ton of great resorts out there.

SPEAKER_01

I would certainly do whistling um I'd do um cabot up in Nova Scotia um but I I Bandon's my next next trip I'd love it gotta rob a bank though to go to Bandon I think no doubt no doubt we'll I have to look for the right the right bank but no I think Bandon is but I think Bandon is the pinnacle it's at least the pinnacle of all US resorts I think um and maybe part of that is because we're here on the east coast where maybe there's some people there were some people that we met on the trip that were from California that they couldn't wait to get to get to Pinehurst and and they were loving it. But yeah Bandon for me I I would say is number one uh the Big Cedar Lodge I think that is yeah I I think that would be a really cool one that seems to be gaining a lot of favor with people and certainly want to try Pebble Beach at some point in time. Yeah but yeah those those are the ones but I'm with you uh go go to Europe and just do a golf trip in Ireland Scotland I mean who want who doesn't want to play the Irish or play the old course go to St. Andrews and really any of the courses in Ireland our fans I think Royal County Downs kind of that bucket list golf course for me if I can get there one day I absolutely well hey we we'll have to figure out another birthday trip we don't have to wait for the next 10 years maybe we can combine a maybe a 55 or something sure start saving now start start saving now so well Jeff man I appreciate you joining us on the trip. First of all I thank you so much for inviting me to come on the trip. I mean it was a being a guy with the the highest handicap on the trip I mean I had a blast y'all tolerated me I did try to play as fast as I could I like to play fast anyway. You do yeah you're false I I I like to play fast I don't I'm not gonna be the dude that holds people up at least not intentionally if I do that and then I start picking up my ball and shutting it down. But thank you so much for having me on the trip and introducing me to all the great group of guys that were on that trip man. Like those are all guys that I I didn't come there as friends with them, but I'd like to think that I left there being friends with them and certainly we'll stay in touch with those guys.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah absolutely thanks for having me on the pod and um yeah let's let's start figuring out our next one.

SPEAKER_01

Yep we'll get we'll we'll get a next one going on well thank you again everybody thank you for listening to another episode of the Southern State of Golf podcast